Torque3D Game Jam?

[marauder2k9]

Answer the poll and if its popular enough we may host a game jam, and if its really popular it might become a usual thing. 

 

EDIT: It should be noted that for anyone sitting on the fence on this, the rules for this are not set yet any input you want to give please share and it might just become a part of the game jam anything at all from timeframe to prize that would be acceptable all feedback is not only welcome but required.

Edited May 15, 2021 by marauder2k9

[LukasPJ]

If only I had time

[marauder2k9]

17 minutes ago, LukasPJ said:

If only I had time

kinda what a game jam is all about lol

[JeffR]

I'd say yes, but Marauder also asked me to be a judge if we end up doing it, so I think that'd automatically recuse me from competing

[marauder2k9]

2 minutes ago, JeffR said:

I'd say yes, but Marauder also asked me to be a judge if we end up doing it, so I think that'd automatically recuse me from competing

can compete just can't win lol i want to take part as well even though i can't win because ill be offering up the prize, ill just be taking part as a way to train because its what game jams are good for exercise the mind a bit test the engine etc 

[JeffR]

Oh, yeah fair enough then, I'd be fine with that.

[Steve_Yorkshire]

14 hours ago, LukasPJ said:

If only I had time

+1

[marauder2k9]

3 minutes ago, Steve_Yorkshire said:

+1

this could be set to take place anytime yano pick a weekend or something, most of the game jams ive seen are usually only a single level that showcases gameplay and most of the time its simple gameplay too make this sphere run away from this deadly cube kinda stuff lol

[JeffR]

Yeah, the entire idea of a jam is that the restrictions require scoping to get it done in the timeframe. The reduced scope and restrictions means

a) it's acceptable to take a weekend off whatever else is going on to just smash something out

b) it's a good breather to shift off an ongoing project

and c) getting something out and completed, even if it's an itty bitty babu game is always gratifying

Plus, limitations is often the thing that yields the most creative results

[marauder2k9]

18 minutes ago, JeffR said:

Yeah, the entire idea of a jam is that the restrictions require scoping to get it done in the timeframe. The reduced scope and restrictions means

a) it's acceptable to take a weekend off whatever else is going on to just smash something out

b) it's a good breather to shift off an ongoing project

and c) getting something out and completed, even if it's an itty bitty babu game is always gratifying

Plus, limitations is often the thing that yields the most creative results

+1

Not to mention the urgency leads to some good ideas that could even end up in another project. Its like brainstorming you fire out ideas so quick your brain just makes it second nature and you stumble onto ideas you never thought you could come up with.

[Jason Campbell]

If only. It would take me months to make a game in 48 hours!

 

 

 

 

 

[Duion]

Moderator note: this comment is only discussing the merits of game jams in general, it doesn’t contribute to this specific game jam and is more suited for its own thread.
 

Games jams are kind of stupid, I mean there is no way you can develop a game in 48 hours. Maybe you can do so in game engines with asset packs where you can drag and drop assets and scripts into a template and tweak some values of those to get it running, but I don't think this will work with Torque3D.

There was once a guy I forgot him who actually did a game in a game jam with Torque3D, it was kind of an asset flip of many of the few asset packs for Torque that existed, but it was actually kind of impressive considering the time he spend on it.

The primary reason this is stupid is probably, because you cannot control how much time someone really spend on it. Most artist or programmers probably have some kind of library of things they have done, so I just could pull out something out of this library and claim I made it in 48 hours. A game jam is more something like where you can show off your skills and your portfolio, but people thinking you can develop an actual game in 48 hours is kind of silly, just solving one bug sometimes can take you longer and games usually have hundreds of them.

Game jams usually produce primitive garbage games, sometimes they even become successfull like the game Superhot, that was supposedly made in a 7 day gamejam with all empty textures and placeholder assets, ironically the full game did not look any different even though they spend much more time on it and received a quarter million dollars in funding. A german youtuber and game reviewer said the game is garbage and even showed how he remade the game mechanics in Unreal engine in a day and that even though he was not a game developer at all.

We would probably suck with Torque3D at a gamejam, since Torque3D is not a game engine that is build off a game, but rather was made into a more "general purpose engine" meaning a lot of features were stripped from it. I used a few other game engines and they are usually much more complete, since they often derive from real games that have been proven to work in the market, Torque3D does not have that for the most part.

[Jason Campbell]

Jeesh Duion, not saying you go to parties but you must be a lot of fun when you do.

[Azaezel]

So if we *are* talking a 2-7 day jam, probably a good idea to have a prefab set of asset collections folks can draw from. Knocks the 'did/didn't they do the art in 2 days' question right on the head.

May also want to knock out a couple more modules for starting places/ utilities to get the juices flowing.

[marauder2k9]

1 hour ago, Azaezel said:

So if we *are* talking a 2-7 day jam, probably a good idea to have a prefab set of asset collections folks can draw from. Knocks the 'did/didn't they do the art in 2 days' question right on the head.

May also want to knock out a couple more modules for starting places/ utilities to get the juices flowing.

funnily enough i was thinking something similar along these lines, there is a lot of art out there that was released for torque and is still free and open source that we could pack into one download

[Duion]

Ridiculous I received a warning for my reply because "Discussing the merits of a game jam is not relevant to the topic of planning one. If you hate game jams, create a new topic for discussing that"

I did not discuss the merits of a game jam in general, it was just a side note, I explicitely referenced Torque3D multiple times, how is that not on topic? And of course discussing the merits of a game jam in general is absolutely relevant regarding planning one, it is always the first question you should ask yourself when doing something. If you just go along through life and do random things all day long without ever self reflecting on them you will not get very far.

Me and others self reflecting on this topic already came to meaningful conclusions like for example that a game jam is hardly possible in 48 hours with Torque3D, so it is more likely not me who has to start another topic, but the author by setting more realistic rules.

@Jason Campbell

Yes, I go to parties and I can have a lot of fun. Ironically you did not receive a warning for your personal attack on me that was 100% offtopic, while I got a warning for getting only slightly offtopic. Now think about why that is.

[Jason Campbell]

@Dioun

Personal attack? It was a joke. You are always so serious, I was just trying to lighten the mood. 

[marauder2k9]

10 hours ago, Duion said:

Moderator note: this comment is only discussing the merits of game jams in general, it doesn’t contribute to this specific game jam and is more suited for its own thread.
 

Games jams are kind of stupid, I mean there is no way you can develop a game in 48 hours. Maybe you can do so in game engines with asset packs where you can drag and drop assets and scripts into a template and tweak some values of those to get it running, but I don't think this will work with Torque3D.

There was once a guy I forgot him who actually did a game in a game jam with Torque3D, it was kind of an asset flip of many of the few asset packs for Torque that existed, but it was actually kind of impressive considering the time he spend on it.

The primary reason this is stupid is probably, because you cannot control how much time someone really spend on it. Most artist or programmers probably have some kind of library of things they have done, so I just could pull out something out of this library and claim I made it in 48 hours. A game jam is more something like where you can show off your skills and your portfolio, but people thinking you can develop an actual game in 48 hours is kind of silly, just solving one bug sometimes can take you longer and games usually have hundreds of them.

Game jams usually produce primitive garbage games, sometimes they even become successfull like the game Superhot, that was supposedly made in a 7 day gamejam with all empty textures and placeholder assets, ironically the full game did not look any different even though they spend much more time on it and received a quarter million dollars in funding. A german youtuber and game reviewer said the game is garbage and even showed how he remade the game mechanics in Unreal engine in a day and that even though he was not a game developer at all.

We would probably suck with Torque3D at a gamejam, since Torque3D is not a game engine that is build off a game, but rather was made into a more "general purpose engine" meaning a lot of features were stripped from it. I used a few other game engines and they are usually much more complete, since they often derive from real games that have been proven to work in the market, Torque3D does not have that for the most part.

so to answer all of this

48 hours was just something stupid to put into one of the answers the rules are not set yet it could be a weekend thing could be a week long thing don't take the 2 days thing so literally you'll give yourself a heart attack

anyone that thinks the point of a game jam is to create a game in 2 days is laughably stupid. Most of the time it is usually to make a single level or even just a concept and on the face of it most of the time it is to not only test yourself but to test the technology. Torque 4.0 is nearing closer and closer and therefore it needs testing and put through as much stress as possible to show potential flaws and or features that need to be added for 4.1.

"Game jams usually produce primitive garbage games" some of the games that have came out of jams have better gameplay and look better than some of the shit that has took years of development. 

"because you cannot control how much time someone really spend on it" this is why these discussions happen, az jeff and i are talking about possible themes that would be announced when the jam starts not months in advance. Not only that but how many game jams are just about artwork? Practically none tbh because a game can look as nice as anything but if it doesn't have good gameplay it would be shit and wouldn't win. Visuals most of the time aren't even marked or counted let alone praised. 

If you don't like the idea of a game jam, you don't need to take part its that simple. Everyone else that is interested in it can and hopefully will. Its very easy with the new engine to get something up and running rather quickly and there will be modules and assets in place to help people too. Hell one of the ideas might be to do with using certain assets only so that takes your art out of the question. 

[JeffR]

6 hours ago, Duion said:

Ridiculous I received a warning for my reply because "Discussing the merits of a game jam is not relevant to the topic of planning one. If you hate game jams, create a new topic for discussing that"

I did not discuss the merits of a game jam in general, it was just a side note, I explicitely referenced Torque3D multiple times, how is that not on topic? And of course discussing the merits of a game jam in general is absolutely relevant regarding planning one, it is always the first question you should ask yourself when doing something. If you just go along through life and do random things all day long without ever self reflecting on them you will not get very far.

Me and others self reflecting on this topic already came to meaningful conclusions like for example that a game jam is hardly possible in 48 hours with Torque3D, so it is more likely not me who has to start another topic, but the author by setting more realistic rules.

@Jason Campbell

Yes, I go to parties and I can have a lot of fun. Ironically you did not receive a warning for your personal attack on me that was 100% offtopic, while I got a warning for getting only slightly offtopic. Now think about why that is.

There is a difference between discussing what would make a game jam work, and ideas to improve it.

Simply saying "game jams are stupid and never work" isn't useful or conducive to improving the conversation. In fact, there's a line in the CoC about leaving constructive criticism to improve the thing being discussed and not just saying it's bad.

If you wanted to suggest 'Hey 48 hours is too short, a week would be better' or 'We need something to ensure people can focus on the GAME part of the game jam' then those help dial in on potential pratfalls.

Your post, instead was "They're stupid because games take time" which isn't constructive at all. Thus, you received a warning.

And to that end, I would remind you that you have run aground the rules several times prior. If all your going to post is negativity without any constructive feedback, you are free to not post at all. And if you continue to do so, then you will face more permanent moderation action.

[Bloodknight]

On 5/15/2021 at 8:37 PM, JeffR said:

I'd say yes, but Marauder also asked me to be a judge if we end up doing it, so I think that'd automatically recuse me from competing

no, just from winning

 

[Duion]

My point was not just "game jams are stupid, because games take time" there were actually more points I made that you probably did not get.

What is constructive and what not is either subjective or you cannot know before you actually thought it through, you cannot just call anything you do not agree with or do not like "not constructive" and censor it. This is just a receipe for failure, imagine someone showing up here on this forum having a very stupid idea and you don't say that the idea is stupid because of some weird code of conduct and instead encurage him to do his stupid undertaking, would this be productive? No, you will just set him up for total failure and a life in delusion, but if you tell him where he is wrong, he may be angry at first, but he will be much better off in the long run.

Ironically other comments did what I supposedly did, they said "game jams are stupid, because you cannot do that in 48 hours" the only difference is, they only implied it and did not use the word stupid, but they did not face "action", even if they post something 100% unrelated they still do not face "action", so you are just sabotaging me.

Telling me I'm not constructive is a joke, I'm one of the most constructive people around, because I actually do (construct) things, that's where the word actually comes from, not from pretending to do something and be nice to each other even if everyone is failing, constructive is getting things done, not about talking nice and doing nothing.

If you really want me to obey to your subjective code of conduct you would need to make a list of words that are illegal to use and opinions that are illegal to have, since that is what you are actually doing.

[greenfire27]

Unfortunately I work in 2D, but I'd be excited to see what you guys can cook up in a few days. I think a theme with asset pool would be fun. It would help focus development time the game mechanics.

[Tony]

@greenfire27 The game jam I believe is to target both T3D and T2D 

Also I wanted to throw this up here as well so it's not lost in the void of Discord but what if the rules limited people to use a game-jam specific pre-compiled version of T2D and T3D (could be kitchen sink versions) just to make it so there's more of a restriction on what you can do so you have to focus your time more on the scripting side and see it's limitations there. It would also kind of level the playing field a little for the developers who struggle with c++ 

Just an idea to throw out there

[marauder2k9]

23 hours ago, Tony said:

@greenfire27 The game jam I believe is to target both T3D and T2D 

Also I wanted to throw this up here as well so it's not lost in the void of Discord but what if the rules limited people to use a game-jam specific pre-compiled version of T2D and T3D (could be kitchen sink versions) just to make it so there's more of a restriction on what you can do so you have to focus your time more on the scripting side and see it's limitations there. It would also kind of level the playing field a little for the developers who struggle with c++ 

Just an idea to throw out there

that is the idea   use the next version that is precompiled release of preview 4.0, the other thing this one just for the moment is going to be just T3D later on there will be a T2D one as well just because i think for testing purposes both engines have very different needs 

[Tony]

On 5/18/2021 at 4:46 PM, marauder2k9 said:

that is the idea   use the next version that is precompiled release of preview 4.0, the other thing this one just for the moment is going to be just T3D later on there will be a T2D one as well just because i think for testing purposes both engines have very different needs 

Oh, I was under the impression from the discord chat that it was to be a single game jam with the option of using either engine as long as it's a Torque Game Engine (No unity, unreal, godot, etc)