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can we have a more detailed roadmap?

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I absent for a while so I'm little lost :lol: ... so my proposal is can we have a more detailed roadmap? with mark to know what SC are accomplished? This no says what are complete http://torque3d.org/engine/#roadmap

I try to use this https://github.com/GarageGames/Torque3D/milestones but sometime I'm lost, I don't know what are you doing guys...

can we consider something like this http://godotengine.org/projects/godot-engine/roadmap




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While not picking on anybody or anything, i see this kind of thing so often, in this and other projects.

People want to do something but only on their terms.

People want everyone to do things their way, or using their tools.

People always propose everyone use the latest buzzword fed neuveau 'tech'.

just as a comment on the actual initial question, the steering committee is virtually non existant as far as i can tell, of the two people doing the most work, one is a SC member, the other is not, both have real jobs, and real other projects.

A roadmap is something used by organisations that have people dedicated to projects, not only that but dedicated to sub projects of that project. I can also guarantee that probably more than half of roadmaps produced for large efficient teams get twsited around and knotted up, and well even with all the respect i have for az and jeff, a large and efficient team they are not.

Torque is a software project that is being developed by its users, its features and bug fixes are implemented and fixed in the order at which the users come across the bugs, or the need for new features. Not all users either, but users that are capable of fixing and/or adding these things.

As far as helping, i know for sure there are a million and one things to do, and almost as many unlinked websites with the details it seems. he one huge issue as i see it with such things as large bloated project management systems is thet people need to learn how to use them, which is time, usually lots of it, as well as associated screwups and somebody fixing them along the way, and thats just the software for the project management. There are also more of these pieces of software than hairs on your head, none of which are the same, all of which have something or some things missing (if you dont believe me try using one for a month, then find an alternative that has all the features you use plus the one that you are missing).

I dont disagree that torque needs something along the lines of project management, or at the very least a single centralised system of some form, but then again, torque needs users, developers far more importantly than it needs new features.

NB. since i mentioned the fact there are lots of unlinked websites, i should attempt to list them, Torque3d.org, github, wiki, forums, and trello. All of these sites are effectively independent from each other, all with varying degrees of information.

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the scattering information i meant was for userspace specifically, with at least a couple of places with 'how to help' and specific help needed.

While i understand you and others have no issue, this goes partially to what i meant about adding new project management systems, and holding myself as a user in the middle in some respects. I have used various systems, some more complex than others some more obscure than others.

Github in my opinion is possibly the most user unfriendly system ive seen after redmine (I had a quote lined up about complexity vs friendliness but i lost it now), the worst part imo is the issues system which is nothing but a messy fucked up melting pot of ideas, issues, bugs, and the another 50% of stuff people dont actually give a rats ass about; Navigating this one useless ass system itself is a mini nightmare since only the overlords can but don't (in a timely fashion) actually decide what criteria a post fits in. This imo should be replaced with a real and dedicated bug tracking system

As the above shows, some people dont get along with the current system as much as others, we have massively reduced working portion of the community, changing to something they do not recognise is not something that should be done; the possible exceptions are:

  • Other systems that the current developers use
  • A discussion followed by shortlisting that highlights a system that would likely get more members of the community involved at a deeper level*
  • * the above has to not exclude current busy developers


As far as the milestones page is concerned, while its mostly what Johxz and the rest need regards a roadmap, i has in the past been very 'flexible' in some instances this cannot be helped, especially if you consider the mistake of actually adding a timeline to a project of this type. but even some features have been moved from one release to the next. Features get added, others slip back, developers disappear, new ones come. (Please note that these are not necessarily criticisms, more of a detailed 'this is how it is now' kind of thing)

I also do not currently have a solution to this particular problem, especially since most code is added on a voluntary basis based on the development of other peoples projects. I do think however that some features listed in the milestones (excluding bugs) could be weighted in terms of 'this is what the engine needs' regardless of what people are working on; this at least would provide a todo list of importance should other/new people want to engage.

Another thing that might be useful is some form of who is working on a task, while that might seem silly now since Az has his fingers in almost every pie, and jeff almost as bad, and this is where shows a lack of features. for example, i know that az and timmy are the go to people regarding the physx and dx11 if i want to help on that particular feature, but without digging into contributors of the branch thats a difficult thing to know.

now ive thoroughly derailed the original thread i'll go hang my head in shame somewhere

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Well, part of the problem of picking a tracking software, is there's a lot of them, not all of them are good, and everyone has a difference preference, haha.

Let alone trying to keep everyone aware of what sites have what already as it is. As such, I went ahead and started up the Torque 3D Development forum in the main T3D area.

This will let us give more pointed direction to what issues, features or pull requests should get the priority for people that want to contribute can pitch in on. I've already created a stick in there that gives the basic lowdown, but the threads in it will be created by me and tied to a particular issue, feature request, or pull request that needs attention. As these are taken care of, the thread will be closed. This should make it a lot easier to keep tabs on what the priority stuff is.

I want to make a new entry to the 'how to create/submit a pull request' wiki page that isn't command-line instructions before that really gets opened up, but this should be a decent intermediate solution for now. It keeps everything localized to here, with relevent links to the wiki or github, while keeping things a bit more organized as to what should be looked at first.

Also, Blood raises and interesting point with trying to remember who's good with what in some cases if you wanted to ask someone that may have a better idea. If no one would have complaints, we could look at having some notable "experts" on certain things be referenced in the sticky, so anyone wanting to pitch in on a relevant issue or PR could know who may be a good match to talk to if they need a second opinion on something. Does that seem like it may be a good idea? Or does that seem like it'll get a few people a deluge of PMs and just annoy them?

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thanks, the good point I see is that, I can track the progress of T3D in a better way... everything from one place without jumping forum, IRC or github, wiki...

I think now we can track the develop, the future features, test branches, even if someone have a separate branch now we are aware off and we can test it and report back.

At some point is needed update the roadmap http://torque3d.org/engine/#roadmap if an outsider sees it, may think that is not done, and isn't true.

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So notes from a recent IRC convo for those not in dealing with 'project specifications' as it were for a better comunity interface:

Primary concern raised was a two parter dealing with independent action:

1) The present Tag list at a minimum does a poor job of conveying what is a bug vs what is a proposed fix for a bug, making it more painful than it needs to be for folks to scan through looking for unattended or undressed tasks.

2) Raising awareness that issues put into milestones do not email folks to that effect without commentary. Makes it difficult to track what's slated for inclusion soon and what's had to be put off till later for a proper review.

Secondary concerns involved communication of interlocking operations:

1) Blockers: Stuff that needs to be rolled in first so other folks can adapt their own work needs a better method of conveyance.

2) Who's on First: Need some way of designating go-to leads for who is taking point on tasks that require collaboration to avoid folks stepping on one another's toes. This one'll need to be done outside of github proper as only SC members are able to receive formal assignments.

Edit: Addendum - Roadmap synchronization for wiki vs gihub has serious time-delay

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