Dwarf King
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Posts posted by Dwarf King
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The problem is not the lack of funding methods, there are bounties and some people already have their own donation pages.
It was since the beginning, that people always demanded a lot of things but nobody did something and even if so it was always not good enough and people demanded more. So all this discussion will not lead anywhere until you don't totally rethink the topic.
I actually find the idea of having a "donation button" great. I would for sure monthly donate around 20$. I would love to see a staff of 20-30 full time workers doing development on Torque 3D.
Let us optimistically say that 10.000 people donate 20$ annually. Well that would be 200,000$ at year. Might not be enough for 20 full time developers but it would for sure help develop Torque 3D and make the engine more awesome.
Set it up, it could potentially be awesome :D
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The issue is that, pulling in someone outside of the community is more expensive than someone who already knows T3D and doesn't have to put time into learning T3D. Further more, hiring someone will be immensely more expensive than someone doing it out of goodwill, and the small reward. Example, getting a wikipage written could cost 100$, vs. 10$ if someone does it out of goodwill.
The idea is to generate a community that wants to do stuff for the community, the bounty system let's people incentivize and reward the people who work on it, not to fund new development teams. I don't think we have enough funds to actually hire someone to work on the engine.
Do you think that is a realistic goal to have with the current market for game engines?
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These two resources I used when I was still developing in Torque 3D. Kind of worked well but I had to tweak the datablock loading process etc. for my AFX as well but not out of the box:
Basic Save and Load Variables to a New File via FileObject
Simplistic Save and Load Game System
Thanks to Steve Acaster. His many resources are simply just awesome.
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time to chime in,
The Bad Behaviour Thing could be taken and expanded and do verry well the same job as verve and that without crashing and causing issues.
.....
Regarding Afx, from my personal pov, hell yeah lets get it in but honestly in the long run the question should be do we want to paste and glue or build?
Well I have yet to look at the Bad Behavior tool... Ah all the time I would wish I had :D
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Verve and GMK were MITed long after activity around them had stopped, and same with Walkabout.
But Walkabout is now a part of T3D MIT and as such it sees some attention and you are the author of Walkabout ;)
Verve and GMK went MIT because their authors are no longer working on them and they where nice enough to release it under MIT so other people can still use them/develop them further.I do totally agree about the rendering though, it does seem the only hope for further features on the rendering front now lie with OpenGL that was re-introduced in 3.7
Correct that is and as such I agree that it was nice of the authors to release them under MIT.
But why should Verve(or GMK as their is a overlap with camera functions as I understand it) not be a part of the stock T3D?
Why should AFX(it is really a special effect tool with a built in animation combo system as well and not just for rpg and magic) not be a part of the stock T3D?
One engine with all the features included.
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I am actually in doubt whether MIT license is an advantage or not. Seeing where Verve and GMK went after going MIT I greatly fear for T3D's future as such. Windows 10 is on the stairs and DirectX 12 is a topic in these days, still I have not heard of a stable T3D MIT version on DirectX 11.
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Which reminds me of a question I've had for a while: has there been a thread on this site or GG.com that extensively lays out the current competition in terms of open source engines? I'd like to know where we stand there, is there anything yet that is as game ready as Torque, with editors and efficient networking code out of the box? Not looking to switch, mind you, just wondering.
I only know of Ogre3D(MIT), Blender(BSD), Panda3D(BSD) and jmonkeyengine(BSD).
Torque 3D's strength lies in the many long time developed add-ons ;)
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Nonetheless I shall upload nothing and respect that the license demands that it has to be downloaded from the actual website when it is up again :D
aaah not problem, I found it. I suppose is not offline after all. :mrgreen:
Alternatively, if you really mean it, you could buy a old "Advanced 3D Game Programming All In One" with a CD included and read about how to set up a small online server and then work from that starting point 8-)Don't worry I know how to do servers of any kind whit python or whatever... this does not takes me time... :lol:
Thanks!
I am not sure I understand this? The main site is still offline. Anyway you cannot legally use the kit for anything unless you have received the download from Prairie Games themselves or the MM Workshop site as it is now. Unless they have changed the license within the last year(I mean that would be awesome like in super awesome :D )... Just keep that in mind so you will not end up with trouble ;)
Where did you find it?
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It is not about free as in free of costs, for me it is about free as in freedom.
If it would be free software you would be allowed to redistribute it, so it would not be able to get lost for example like now.
Well that I cannot help you with :D
Perhaps it will go MIT one day :mrgreen:
BSD is like MIT very liberal... what they told is a lie about the license.
Well thank you Dwarf about the info. In any case is very interesting that kit ;)
Duon is right what he says, is a pity is lost.
BTW @Dwarf King at least you can share the manual of the MMO Kit?
Their is sadly no manual just an installation guide in steps(mostly about how to install Python stuff and Apache server), then their was a link in a readme.txt file to a site that was suppose to hold the documentation... Alas that site is no longer and has been long gone.
The best info left was the actual website(mmoworkshop forums and info) which is currently down while they migrate to another hosting provider.
Also please bear in mind that this kit is by no means a plug and play kit. It requires lots of work to set up and run successfully. And with the lack of any real documentation it will also take some time to research. It is really a pity to see such a fine tool without any documentation left. All that good work not being able to be used.
Nonetheless I shall upload nothing and respect that the license demands that it has to be downloaded from the actual website when it is up again :D
Alternatively, if you really mean it, you could buy a old "Advanced 3D Game Programming All In One" with a CD included and read about how to set up a small online server and then work from that starting point 8-)
Personally I shall stay away from online games development for now(but not for that long perhaps...).
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It is not about free as in free of costs, for me it is about free as in freedom.
If it would be free software you would be allowed to redistribute it, so it would not be able to get lost for example like now.
Well that I cannot help you with :D
Perhaps it will go MIT one day :mrgreen:
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So this is not a BSD style license then, free software licenses always give you the right of redistribution of the software.
No it is not. It is not Open source. It is just free to make MMO games with.
You are allowed to:
download it for free
use it for free to make a mmo
earn money on the mmo
All that is for free
It is hardly going to get better than that.
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Just go to their website and send them an email about the license.
It is for sure not like MIT license as such. In fact I will not call it open source as such. You still can only use it for making a mmo and you must download it from their site. Hence I do not dare upload one single bit :D
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Ok then I totally missed this, but I never searched for it yet. Anyone has the license text? If it is BSD similar license it would be possible to redistribute it.
The license says that you can make a commercial mmo with it as long as you download it from their site. You may not use it for anything else. Oh and yes you also need a license for AFX.
Also I dare not copy paste the license as I am not sure I can do so... Ahh legal stuff :)
I think the site will be up again soon and then you can download it and have a look.
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In 2013 they(prairiegames) came with this awesome news:
http://www.garagegames.com/community/forums/viewthread/135337/1#comment-851124
and here:
http://www.prairiegames.com/tools.html
That ended up with some small problems since that kit was built upon TGEA... Such an engine or license is not possible to get your hands at anymore :|
That is all I know for now.
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Hi,
Someone have this "Torque MMO Kit" is open source but I don't see it anywhere. There is a kind person who can share TMMO Kit? Thanks!
http://www.garagegames.com/community/blogs/view/13391/3#comment-199909
According to that thread, it's only free for TGE + AFX owners. I.e. it's not available if you don't own those 2 products.
It was set free to use with Torque 3D and the website had it set up so people could download it:
They posted a post about it on that sides forum to inform people about this as Torque 3D went MIT... I did you all miss that? :mrgreen:
Sadly they have taken it down for now(but they write it should soon be up again soon). I have a copy of it. It is not plug and play. You need to read a lot and know some stuff about servers and databases(and Python :D ) before you can set anything up with it. And even then then expect doing some work. I am not spending much time on it in these days as I am making a single player game.
The forums at http://mmoworkshop.com/ also used to contain some info on it. Those are also currently not up.
Due to the license I am not sure whether I can send you a copy or not of the kit. It used to be that you could only use it if the mmo kit for TGEA/TGE or Torque 3D was downloaded from http://mmoworkshop.com/.
@Duion
Oh and yes it does works(just not plug and play or out of the box) as several online games have been made with this kit and Torque 3D ;)
Google might not always be your friend but here Google can be helpful.
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Now let us calm down and take a look at this.
That said, I generally agree with your approach. We need to snuggle up as close as we can to Blender, both in terms of community and providing support for Blender art in the engine. Honestly I think it's our best shot. Also, this community tends to be more full of programmers than artists, so pairing with a community where the balance is flipped would be a great idea.Yes artists and programmers should work together and do it every single day in the game industry. That is why programmers outsource their art work to good freelancer artists :)
I think its too late for that. Blender is like free photoshop for 3D visualizations, yes, there are alternatives, but with Blender you can get totally trained for a professional job with a zero investment on professional software that cost you thousands, then with that experience you can build a portfolio then land a job, with in-house commercial softs.
Perhaps, but for some landing a job might not be the goal. Also please notice that Epic Games gave Blender Organization around 50.000$ to improve their fbx pipeline. Hence Blender is already taken serious as a tool in the industry. Earning money is now harder than ever and highly expensive subscription models for 3d max or even buying seat licensees are something most would like to avoid if possible :)
Torque3D is trying to fight in a completly different scenario. Here users are indie devs or teams that need to deliver a great, already finished product to archive his own survival. So everything but that a decent engine with a community and a company behind is already discarded. Even worse, since TWO 3D versions of photoshop went FREE and CryE. is 19$ / Month. Not to mention the other zillion open source engine alternatives avaliables as today.
The market is saturated. Such is the game industry when many wish to develop a new game engine and earn on it. It is called competition and it normal for a market to behave like it does when supply and demand does not match each other. It is okay and normal what you see now.
Said it before, and I'm saying it again: With blender you only need to laid the tools and everything else are minor updates here and there (like gimp). In a Game Engine, evey noticeable shifting in rendering technology will FORCE you to deal with large source refractoring that affects on a global scale. And this HARDWARE shifts are happening on a solid 6 months circles because there are quite big guys shipping stuff 4 profits.
DX9 has been used for like ten years? And all DX11 machines also support DX9(actually DX11 can be made to support DX9 as such). If DX9 would stop being supported many Microsoft Windows users woulf not be able to use their games they purchased through steam and on dvds back then. The whole Windows world would scream in agony and anger if that would change ;) You can safely develop on DX9 game engines until T3D MIT is upgraded to DX11 in the near future.
The thing that appeals the most about torque are his somewhat matured features and the full source. But don't be fooled, anyone wishing to make it in the industry will never ever choose Torque when you can already develop for free on behemoths like U5 or UE4. (And by the way, start over to learn an engine from the ground up).
Choice of engine will not decide whether you make it or not in the game industry. That is your social marketing skill, your marketing budget, game play and some luck that decides that. DX9 engines only requirement is a windows machine with a decent CPU, 2-4 gigs of ram and a okay GPU. Windows is about to be free by the way :)
The only guys that can found torque most appealing as today in my opinions are coders. Big con: Coders usually don't deliver enough eye-candy :cry: (which sells).
Yups just like the people at Unity who loves to code in C# or the Unreal 4 users who try to avoid Blueprint when possible and stick to C++... Actually even Blueprint requires you to code. As soon as you hit the need for Boolean variable needs, Branch(if statements in Blueprint) and arrays in UE4 many people get surprised how the logic and thinking of a coder/programmer is still required to make anything. Try to make a door system with keys and sound detection for areas in order make different foot step sounds in UE4 and you will be surprised ;)
Oh and eye candy is useless if nobody sees your game... Codeword is social marketing and some luck :idea:
Vulkan, Dx12, HLGL, PBR, theres just too much shit new everyday to implement, and guys like me that are no coders, learning any modern API means a shitload of investment so big, that anything that I cannot reuse over and over and over again is a big fucking nono. Even at the level of scripting (yes, I'm looking you TorqueS).
For this reasons most artist want a plug and play approach, and torque is in a field that im pretty certain it will never archieve the stablity nor the features, not the standarization the other, mainstream engines already have. (And therefore can safely ignore us) UNLESS
You do not need most of all those features. I have used UE4 for a year to test its capabilities. UE4 comes with more than any indie will ever need for his small game. Also UE4 crashes, it crashes a lot when doing landscape sculpting and Blueprint scripting or working in Persona(animation and blending etc.). I find T3D MIT version 3.5.1 just as stable as UE4 version 4.6.1. Both are nice tools that offer different solutions to problems and needs.
UNLESS torque shifts to a modular approach, where Steering Comitee just develop a FRAMEWORK that just pieces together a buch of open source projects. (Torque6 a nice start)
What T3D steering community is doing now is also what Epic Games is doing on their GitHub with Unreal 4. The steering community is doing it very well.
I receive updates about the T3D MIT repo's pull requests everyday. It is a very much alive and active repo.
It seems to me that you have been blinded a bit by all the marketing as such. I can tell you that many artists hit a wall when they realize they still need to think as a coder/programmer a bit when working in UE4 or Unity 4/5.
Also while we write this at least two more T3D titles has hit the steam store this month. Now ain't that just utterly awesome? :mrgreen:
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At the end of the day, if your open source game doesn't ever get released because you've spent all your time and resources on engine tech, the MIT license has become a moot point...
True that is, yes true that is.
Buuut...
Sorry couldn't help it :mrgreen:
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gime moi five bucks! Now! :geek:
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Well if you read other peoples' code and get inspired to make your own code... :mrgreen:
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Good to see that you recover well.
I used to go to the gym and do weights. The I got hit to the knee by a game developer :mrgreen:
Now I do some situps to train the stomach and some hand weights do prevent the famous mouse arm/shoulder problems.... My wife demands it :lol:
I also use a MMO mouse(Naga Razor... bad quality by the way) to do level design(one can use the thumb to click with instead 12 pieces of thumb buttons to go frenzy on... click... click... click... ahhh! my thumb got twisted!). My keyboard is an ergonomic one and that have also lessen my hand wrist pain a lot.
Some times I raise the keyboard up to a higher level with some books(two UDK books... Hehe) under it so I can stand and code.
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Oi! Neat to see you here as well :O)
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Many people in the Torque 3D community would find you to be a semi God if you would do this. Full mac support for T3D is something many mac users want.
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Well Ron to be honestly then I would say that this is what they decided to do. I mean what can we do? Also was that not why we wanted to move to this forum?
Patreon for Steering Comitee?
in General
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Working for free is not an option for most people due to bills needed to be paid. That is common sense.